Episode 30 – POTS Diaries w/ Jackie

00:01 Announcer: Welcome to the Standing Up to POTS podcast, otherwise known as the POTScast. This podcast is dedicated to educating and empowering the community about postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, commonly referred to as POTS. This invisible illness impacts millions and we are committed to explaining the basics, raising awareness, exploring the research, and empowering patients to not only survive, but thrive. This is the Standing Up to POTS podcast.

00:29 Jill (Host): Hello fellow POTS patients and nice people who care about POTS patients! I'm Jill Brook and today we have an episode of The POTS Diaries, where we get to know someone in the POTS community and hear their story. So today we are speaking with Jackie who kindly volunteered to share her experiences with us. And Jackie, thank you so much for being here today.

00:52 Jackie (Guest): Thank you so much for having me. I'm pretty excited to be here.

00:55 Jill (Host): So let's start with some boring stuff just to set the context. What is your age and where do you live?

1:02 Jackie (Guest): I AM 38 years old and I live in Scottsdale, AZ.

1:05 Jill (Host): And is that where you grew up?

1:08 Jackie (Guest): I did not. I grew up in Southern California and then I moved here in 2008, and so I've been here for about 13 years.

1:15 Jill (Host): How would your friends or family describe your personality?

1:19 Jackie (Guest): Oh boy. They would describe me as a sense of humor. Very loyal, very outgoing, driven, loving, caring and very adventurous. Likes to have fun life of the party sometimes with an asterisk on that one. Yeah, so that's pretty much me in a nutshell.

01:39 Jill (Host): So can I ask what are your favorite things to do - for your hobbies, interests?

01:46 Jackie (Guest): Absolutely. So I do have a 6 year old golden retriever, so I spend a lot of time with her. We do a lot of walks. She goes on a lot of adventures with me, so we'll do stand up paddle boarding together, we’ll hike, we’ll backpack or camp. I love to do those activities, so I'm lucky that I have another tomboy with me. I also love to travel. I traveled the world pretty extensively. I love learning about new cultures and new histories. I also am a fanatic for just delicious food - kind of a foodie. Also very much into kind of the small creative side to me. So landscape photography, material design and a little bit of fashion. Those are just for fun though, those are just fun hobbies.

02:31 Jill (Host): Excellent, so if we could get into your pots journey a little bit, can I ask what was the first sign that made you think something was wrong?

02:41 Jackie (Guest): Yeah, I remember it very vividly. It was January 1st, 2009. Prior to that I had had kind of episodes of dizziness - they would probably only last for a day, and it would happen maybe once every six months or a year. It kind of felt like a wave coming over me, but it would completely go away. So starting January 1st, 2009, it was a chronic dizziness and fatigue and really all 37 symptoms all came on at once and they stayed. So, January 1, 2009, was really the day that I turned chronic, I'd say.

03:20 Jill (Host): So did you just think that you had partied too hard the night before [laughs] or what? What did you think was going on?

03:26 Jackie (Guest): I had no idea what was going on. I'd had you know a couple of dizzy episodes prior, so I thought maybe I'll just give it a day. And then a week went by and I just felt so terrible and I couldn't even stand up, I was so dizzy, and really just kind of consumed with life. I've noticed when I had very heavy episodes, my memory is a little foggy of everything that I felt or that I went through. So, I just remember thinking, “what the heck is this?” and just kind of living with it for the 1st 2-3 weeks and just laying on the couch and then I started to get serious with my journey on seeing the medical professionals on what the heck is going on.

04:08 Jill (Host): And what was going on in your life at that time? Were you working or at school or...?

04:17 Jackie (Guest): I had just moved to Arizona with a man I was dating. So I moved to Arizona one month prior. I had just signed up for ASU MBA School and I just received a promotion and a new job all within a month.

04:35 Jill (Host): Oh, so that sounds like bad timing.

04:38 Jackie (Guest): [Laughs] I don't think there's any good timing for this, but yes. It was not optimal timing.

04:44 Jill (Host): OK, then how long did it take you to find answers?

04:48 Jackie (Guest): I was diagnosed April 1st - Happy April Fools Day - in 2011. So it took me 2 1/2 years. I saw about - I think I have it in a record - 27 doctors. I went to see anywhere from a neurosurgeon to chiropractor to specific chiropractors to, you know, vertigo, to ear, to... I mean, you know, you have every single symptom. It's a full body experience. So I was, you know, kind of doing my own research and booking my own appointments to see doctors.

05:22 Jill (Host): And what happened the rest of your life during that time? It sounds like you had so much going on.

05:26 Jackie (Guest): So I had to cancel ASU MBA school, I did not attend. I was out on medical leave from my work for about four or five months. I found a chiropractor who did some adjustments that kind of gave me some relief - not a ton, but enough to kind of go back to work a little bit. So I'd go part time and then I'd have like a big flare up again. And then it would come back and then I would have to go on medical leave again. And I even moved to Palm Springs temporarily to try another chiropractor doctor out that said that she could help me, so I did that for six months. I lived in my grandmother's trailer with my husband just going to the doctor twice a week. So I just pretty much just laid there. I laid there or went to doctors' appointments and a lot of crying.

06:18 Jill (Host): Oh, I'm wondering if you can just like give us a postcard snapshot of you at your worst, so that when you later describe your best, we can have some contrast.

06:32 Jackie (Guest): So I was diagnosed April 2011. I was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale. Luckily, there's Dr. Brent Goodman who is a prestigious thoughts doctor involved with Dysautonomia International and a lot of research. He was fantastic and I learned a lot of the techniques, you know, salt water exercise especially. We trialed a couple medicines and I decided not to go on them that I was - I felt better without them so. From there I moved to Seattle in January 2012. While I was in Seattle, I had the worst - I'd say the worst I've ever felt. I guess I actually was taking too much sodium and my whole body was inflamed. I wasn't exercising or moving. My feet were so inflamed. I had to wear compression socks, and I couldn't even put shoes on. I couldn't really get out of bed. Every joint was killing me. My heart rate was the highest. I never fainted in my life, but I had about 6 pre-syncope episodes there which were pretty intense. I could barely get in the car to go to more doctors and I thought something else was wrong with me. And yeah, I even had to order at that point, you know, a shower chair 'cause I couldn't even stand up in the shower. It was definitely at my worst. So I laid in bed, pretty much just symptoms getting worse and worse every day for about four months.

08:03 Jill (Host): So, what happened?

08:04 Jackie (Guest): So, what happened is I did a bunch of more tests up in Seattle and they found nothing else per usual. I thought I had Lyme disease. I mean, I was right and then your mind goes wild, so I finally got in touch with Julie who is Doctor Brent Goodman’s nurse, and she is a sweetheart and I talked to her and she put my butt in motion. She said, “Get up. Get on your recumbent bike for 30 seconds a day and then one minute the next day. Do some leg lifts. Stop with the salt and get your mind and start doing little things and get back together.” And I just slowly slowly did that and I completely got back to a very functioning phase and life on my own just from figuring out better the salt technique, from wearing my compression socks because it took about a year and a half for all that salt to actually come out of my body, and my body to recover from it. It was really crazy. And I just started exercising again, especially my legs, and completely became completely functioning again just from those things.

09:11 Jill (Host): Yeah, 'cause I think when you say you're completely functioning again - I can see you right now - our listeners cannot - but you look like a million bucks. So can you describe what completely functioning means to you right now?

09:27 Jackie (Guest): Absolutely, Jill, and I think that is a key question. It's all relative. We all have different symptoms and we all have different functioning in life. I would say I can go 18 hours a day. I can run and own a business. I can - and basically my symptoms are so minimum that I feel like I can have a “mostly normal life.” I will put asterisk there as well because there is a lot of things I do every single day to still maintain and keep my POTS at this level. There are some days where I burn myself out because I just love life and go 1000 mph and then I'll have to be in bed for an entire day 'cause my POTS said that's too much. One of my only biggest POTS symptoms is gastro issues. I've consulted with Jill as well to help me with that. I wear stomach compression garments. I am on a very strict new trial keto diet, which seems to be very helpful for me. But yeah, I do a lot of things - a lot of salt, a lot of water. I exercise actually every single day, whether it's anywhere between 30 minutes of yoga to walking the dog to doing a circuit class at a studio. So that's kind of really my definition is that I am not symptom-free, they are just a very minimal part of my life now most of the time.

10:45 Jill (Host): So am I remembering correctly that when we spoke before you had mentioned that, for example, you can hike 14 miles if you want to?

10:54 Jackie (Guest): Yes, so for example, you gave a great example. I was in Montana and Glacier National Park for work. So I was at 8000 elevation feet which when I get to that elevation my POTS will - my heart rate will react. So that's why I'm saying it's not - it is a part of my life still, so I know to like go there early so I can acclimate to it. I know to just keep calm when my heart gets high. I know I need to hydrate extra 'cause my body, I will bring electrolytes with me and make sure I take care of myself. I'll bring a little bit more food with me so that my blood sugar doesn't drop at all. So I do a lot of things to be proactive. But yeah, I just hiked 22 miles in two days. No problem.

11:36 Jill (Host): Wow. And especially in the context of your mentioning that you had to start with just 30 seconds and then a minute. Did you literally just build up like that up till you're 22 miles in two days.?

11:48 Jackie (Guest): Yep, it's taken three years to build up to all that hiking. I also have, I think a blessing - a silver lining blessing of this is that I was before I had POTS and in high school I got recruited to play basketball for D1 for Cal Berkeley. So, I've always had this very rigorous athlete workout routine and mindset where it's always mind over matter, and I think that alone has single handedly gotten me to a place where I am with POTS.

12:22 Jill (Host): So even when you were just doing a few minutes, you were treating it as if it was a very serious formal workout?

12:29 Jackie (Guest): Oh yeah, I was like this is gonna be the best 30 seconds of my life and then tomorrow I’m gonna do a minute and then I might sweat a little, I can't wait and it's gonna feel amazing 'cause you know, exercise makes you feel amazing. It's it was funny because in the beginning I had severe exercise intolerance, as most of us do. So I would do like two minutes on the spin bike at just a very minimal pace and I had to lay down for two hours or three hours when I was at my worst. There are still some workout like let's say I haven't swam in a while and I go swim 30 minutes in the pool, it will wipe me out. It will wipe me out from a POTS point of view as well. You know there are some times, right, where I push and my body will say, “time to sleep,” and sleeping is fine. It's my rocket fuel, I call it it's my superpower it is when I sleep even for 20 minutes or two hours it completely restores.

13:23 Jill (Host): Do you have to work to sleep well? Or does that come naturally to you?

13:27 Jackie (Guest): I sleep like a baby. I sleep so deep, so easy, so fast. I think it's because how much I do every day. [laughs] Between work - I do own my own consulting firm and I am a wild animal and like have fun, engage in social activities and then I spend a lot of time exercising. So I'm pooped by the end of the day.

13:48 Jill (Host): So I'm sorry to ask so many questions about your exercise, but I imagine that there's a lot of populations out there who are very, very exercise intolerant, and they are saying “how do I get from here to there?” And you did it, you know, to hear you now, it sounds like you love exercise and a lot of different kinds of exercise, and it doesn't have to be recumbent, it can be upright, it can be outside in Arizona, which sounds very warm. So it sounds like you somehow got your body from exercise intolerant to kind of really enjoying it - all kinds - and I just wonder, was that a linear process or did you go for a while and just all of a sudden broke through and your body went from not tolerating exercise to embracing it? Or do you have any - I don't know - anything that would be kind of hopeful to that person who feels like their body hates exercise so much that they couldn't possibly ever get to where you are?

14:50 Jackie (Guest): Absolutely, and I'm very passionate about this because exercising is such a big part of my life and I do think between that and salt and water, it is single handedly made me a very functioning POTS. So I'm very passionate about this and I'm very passionate about helping other POTS patients with really the mindset. To me, it starts with the mind. Our body wants to tell us a million things. And it makes me frustrated. It gives me so many different signals it starts to make me panic and becomes overwhelming anxiety sometimes, and I've now gotten to a point after very long time - I'd say a decade - where if my POTS freaks out, I tell it to shut up. I say “OK, what's causing this?” OK, maybe it's my allergies so I need an allergy pill and I just need a water and I need to lay down for 20 minutes and I I'm the boss. And yes and no, that works. I do think it works maybe 60% of the time, but it really this is really a mind thing. It's about controlling the mind and being able to take very small steps with it. I think it's so hard in the beginning to take that step, and I think that's where my athletic background and mindset came in. But just you know just laying in bed and doing twenty leg lifts with no weight, just you know doing a one or two squats - that's all it needs to start with, and I think people just don't really have a plan to say hey, 30 seconds this day. Forty-five seconds this day, do this, everybody is different. I will tell you, in the beginning it was two steps forward, one step back with exercising. And it's very frustrating to be on that path, but there is more hope than setbacks. And you know, I had a lot of plateaus, you know. I would go to those forward one step back and then I could stand up, you know, after two weeks I could stand up for 10 minutes. So I thought that was a big achievement in a plateau, and then I would keep pushing and then I could walk down to Starbucks. And then, I mean, this is very small stuff, we're talking about, like, we just need to think of the next goal ahead of us. I want to stand up for five minutes. I want to stand up for 10 minutes. And it took me a decade to get here, but it is possible and I think it's just persistence and consistency and determination.

17:09 Jill (Host): Yeah, so that's good to know. So treating every little victory like it matters, 'cause it does. Clearly you're showing that they add up. What do you wish you had known sooner about POTS?

17:21 Jackie (Guest): I wish I would have had a full treatment center from the beginning. In the beginning it was like, oh, salt and water and exercise. That was kind of it. From there, it's like we can try some medications. So I really feel like I wish there was a program 'cause this is a very high maintenance, multi dimensional multifaceted syndrome that I found - after 10 years, I feel like I finally found all the tips and tricks and were all different. So that's why I do love like Facebook forums and things like that ‘cause it's like, hey, does your stomach hurt, what helps? And so, the community is a big deal.

17:56 Jill (Host): Yeah, do you have any tips or tricks that you have not yet mentioned that served you well?

18:02 Jackie (Guest): I feel like compression stockings on very tight compression stockings, all of it to my thighs, were very helpful.

18:09 Jill (Host): When you say very tight, do you mean like - how much compression? Do you know the number?

18:15 Jackie (Guest): I'm going to say 40 or 45 I'm not, but I'm not sure.

18:19 Jill (Host): OK, so the ones that are really hard to get on.

18:21 Jackie (Guest): They're impossible. I get I have to lay down, takes me a solid like 25 minutes I'm sweating – those. Those are fantastic. I wear those - I do wear those on long flights still. I think really anybody should wear them on really long flights. They're fantastic for recovery, but those helped me significantly. I will say that the like a stomach compression band or compression, just compression. Our bodies love compression. So anywhere shape or form compression has worked great for me. So the stomach and it does promote some additional motility. Not all the way, but it's been very helpful. My #1 tip or a trick that I have found is powder, electrolytes and they are sugar-free. And you can determine how much you put in or not. You can travel with them and I drink them all day and all night, and my hydration is through the roof. They're delicious, they're a lot easier to, you know, the heaviness and bulkiness and transporting all the Gatorade or Pedialyte. This is a very helpful tool. I can access my electrolytes at every single time, I actually have the brand right here. It's called Ultima Replenisher. I do order them on Amazon. But this saved my life. Every single day.

19:41 Jill (Host): So can I ask, has your family and have your friends been very aware that you were going through this whole thing or to them, to the outside world, did you put on kind of the brave face?

19:57 Jackie (Guest): So I think to this day my family and friends do not know 90 percent of it. I try and, kind of mind over matter - not only is it just my personality to not share my struggles or, I don't like people seeing me down or I don't like sympathy. So that, you know, so that's that's interesting and a lot of them, like my friend actually she was here last week from Chicago, we were briefly talking about it and actually did a little quick screenshot of all the symptoms and I told her the ones I still experience, which is almost all of them, but they are minimal, and she's been my friend for 12 years and she didn't know any of that. I don't love to talk about it a ton. I feel like it dominates my mind. It dominates my life. It dominates my every single thought. It keeps me in it rather than looking forward and out of it. They do know enough information. They do know I was bedridden for this year and then again this year and they kind of - they know some of my journey. But it's also in my personality to, you know, being athlete and suck it up and you just deal with your own challenges internally. So that's part of it and the other part of it is I don't want it to dominate my life and my conversation and my relationships and friendships. It is a huge part of me, but I want it to be an aspect, not everything, and I think it's hard when we're living this because it completely dominates us. It completely overwhelms us. And so I try and keep it like, you know, I'll talk about it for 30 minutes a day and that's it. And then other than that, I got a life to live and I gotta get back to trying to do it.

21:40 Jill (Host): You sound very tough.

21:42 Jackie (Guest): I am. I'm a tough girl. Yeah, I'm a very tough girl. [Laughs]

21:47 Jill (Host): We have something that we call the speed round where I ask you questions and you just say the first thing that comes to your mind. And you're welcome to say pass, but does that sound OK?

21:58 Jackie (Guest): Sounds fun. Let's do it!

22:00 Jill (Host): OK, what is your favorite way to get salt?

22:03 Jackie (Guest): Just salting my food with Himalayan salt.

22:06 Jill (Host): What drink do you find the most hydrating?

22:09 Jackie (Guest): The electrolytes powder electrolytes I mention.

22:13 Jill (Host): What is your favorite time of day and why?

22:16 Jackie (Guest): First thing in the morning - walking my dog, being active, so blessed to be able to get up every day.

22:22 Jill (Host): how many other POTS patients have you ever met face to face?

22:26 Jackie (Guest): I would say 7.

22:28 Jill (Host): What is one word that describes what it's like living with POTS?

22:32 Jackie (Guest): Challenging.

22:34 Jill (Host): What is something small that brings you comfort or joy?

22:38 Jackie (Guest): I would say my dog.

22:40 Jill (Host): Is there anybody that you admire or aspire to be like?

22:44 Jackie (Guest): I do admire my mother. She is my hero. She is phenomenal and she's she's just a wonderful human being.

22:53 Jill (Host): What is something that you're proud of?

22:55 Jackie (Guest): I'm proud of myself every single say living with this.

22:58 Jill (Host): What is the skill that you wish you had?

23:01 Jackie (Guest): Patience.

23:03 Jill (Host): What are you really good at?

23:06 Jackie (Guest): I'm really good at inspiring and persuading people towards a greater good.

23:13 Jill (Host): What is a gift that you would send to every other pots patient if you had infinite funds?

23:18 Jackie (Guest): I honestly think this electrolytes saved my life and it's very cheap, so I would send a lot of bottles of them.

23:26 Jill (Host): What is something that you're grateful for?

23:29 Jackie (Guest): I am grateful for my upbringing and my athletics so that I have the support system and the mindset to handle this syndrome. Like they say, you know, God gives his biggest battles to his strongest soldiers, and so He knew I was very strong soldier.

23:49 Jill (Host): So this is our last speed round question. Please finish this sentence. People might suspect I'm a potty when.

23:56 Jackie (Guest): I need to take a nap. I need to lay down [laughs] in the middle of anything, I need to just sleep sometimes.

24:11 Jill (Host): And does that still happen sometimes?

24:13 Jackie (Guest): All the time. I'm taking a nap, a 20 minute nap, all the time. Almost every single day.

24:19 Jill (Host): Do you think it's the sleep you need or do you think it is the reclining position that you need for a while?

24:27 Jackie (Guest): I'm gonna go with both.

24:29 Jill (Host): So, I think that's good to know because to me you sound like an absolute superwoman and it sounds like you have the little things that you do throughout the day that you've just learned to make time for. Don't put it off. Go ahead, take that 20 minute nap or whatever, and then you're kind of back to being Superwoman. Is that how it works?

24:48 Jackie (Guest): Exactly. I will wake up in the morning. I will walk my dog 2 miles. I will go to the gym for an hour. That sets my day. It gives me energy, but then it also is draining, or if I'm working with clients or continue to build my business it gets, you know, little draining. I will take a 20 minute nap. And then I'm kind of right back to it for the entire rest of the day.

25:10 Jill (Host): That's fantastic. What do you wish more people knew about POTS?

25:15 Jackie (Guest): I wish people knew about all the tips and tricks and resources out there. It took me 10 years to figure it all out.

25:24 Jill (Host): Do you have any favorite resources you want to share with people?

25:28 Jackie (Guest): My favorite resource - I have two I'd like to share. Two, I'd like to share if I'm allowed to have two. One is the Facebook community. I do say use that with caution because take everything with a grain of salt and do not be on it all the time to where we're all being 100% consumed again with our syndrome, but I do think there's fantastic tips and tricks that we've learned. And then secondly, is just really the work - the working out.

25:57 Jill (Host): That's great. Is there anything you'd like to say to any of your fellow POTS patients out there who might be listening?

26:06 Jackie (Guest): Absolutely. I hope that I can be an inspiration and living proof that it is doable. It's gonna be rough, but you're already in unusually rough - we already live in a rough day usually, so I mean it's choose your roughness. I really hope that everyone can embrace the exercise that has completely transformed my life medication free. And really be willing to ask for help or go seek resources. The Texas Clinic, Jill, your clinic is phenomenal. I've got acupressure and microneedling that helps me a ton when my body kind of freaks out and needs to be reset. So yeah, I would just say try and choose a different life for yourself and it's amazing what the mind can do.

26:55 Jill (Host): So for people who aren't familiar, can you explain what acupressure and micro needling are and what they do for you?

27:03 Jackie (Guest): Absolutely! So, what happens is our bodies, our nervous systems, are always in this fight or flight. So about every four or five months, even though I'm super high functioning, my nervous system will kind of max out. It will just kind of stay in this very intense - my muscles will get inflamed and tight. I almost feel like fibromyalgia and I know we have a lot of symptoms with that. And so what happens is I literally go to this guy I finally found after 10 years - I just found him last year. And it has changed me from a physical standpoint. So, what he'll do is he will stick acupressure needles into your muscles that are freaking out and he can assess. It's usually in my back and my neck. We have a lot of neck problems with POTS, so he will just stick needles everywhere in me. It kind of gets down to the nerves and the muscles. He will then hook me up to a car battery. So you know, it's a little electric and it'll just like zap my muscles for like 10 minutes. And it's almost like it just calms them down. It resets my nervous system, it resets my muscles, it resets my mind. And it's one technique I've finally found after 10 years that completely calms my system down 'cause I feel like we build up a lot and I'm sure, you know, we all build up at different rates. I build up about every four to six months.

28:28 Jill (Host): That's interesting. Have you found any other treatments like that, alternative treatments, that seem to really help for you?

28:35 Jackie (Guest): That is the only one that I have found, you know, massages are great just to kind of keep blood flowing. I will say there's a lymphatic drainage massage that I've tried twice now and that has been intense for moving all the fluids in my body. So, I think these are just really kind of almost lifestyle alternative treatments and it all works for different people, but those are the two I would highly recommend. Like I said, I've only found this one guy in 10 years who does this kind of nervous system aligned microneedling.

28:09 Jill (Host): Yeah, that's great that you've found things that help you. And just to be clear to our listeners, we're not endorsing anything. We're all different. We all have to work with our own medical teams. I thought that massage had helped me so much that I went out and got one of those massage guns thinking I'd be able to give myself a good strong massage any old time, and Oh my gosh, the worst mast cell reaction I ever had was from the vibration of one of those massage guns. And the second worst mast cell reaction I ever had was a dry brush 'cause I had thought that that dry brushing myself would be so healthy. So anyway, everybody has to be careful, find what they can safely do with the guidance of their medical team. But it it sounds encouraging that your experience is that you've found some things that even just doing it every few months really helps to kind of bring your nervous system back into balance and then you're good to go for another few months?

30:00 Jackie (Guest): Exactly, and, you know, you bring a perfect point and my point as well is that I've been trial and erring. I haven't even spoken about all the errors or trialing that I've done that have not worked, or I don't really do much, you know, or some things that work better than others where all - every single POTS patient is different, and so I've done just a lot of trial and erring But it's better to go there to try something than to not try anything at all when you're working with your doctor, but I just feel like, do something different. Try something new and just see what works for you. Sometimes it'll be great, sometimes our bodies don't love it because we're sensitive to a lot of things, and then you just get back on the on the bike and go, go again.

30:45 Jill (Host): Yeah, I agree. I find it very empowering to always have an experiment going because sometimes you find wonderful things that you know make you way better off for it. So yeah, the error part of the trial and error can be painful, expensive, annoying, but for myself, I agree that it's it's worth it in the long run. So my last question is, why did you agree to let us share your story today?

31:13 Jackie (Guest): My sole mission in life in both personal and professional life is to create social impact and help others. I am currently a executive advisor and leadership consultant to businesses. So, I help people individually as leaders and I help businesses grow and there's a lot of social impact there, especially with the business. And my other one is to help POTS patients and friends and any aspect I can. I feel like I've done a lot of work in trialing and erring and I feel like I have generally succeeded, so I would love to share my information with anybody out there who can get me on any forum to hopefully inspire or reinspire or give people hope.

31:57 Jill (Host): That's great, and can you just remind us one more time, how many months or years of trial and error and work did it take for you to go from bed bound to basically Superwoman now?

32:14 Jackie (Guest): I would say it took six years. And I was a lighter version of a Superwoman. I'm even more super [inaudible] now.

23:23 Jill (Host): Sorry, extra question here. Do you think the experience of POTS contributed to making you extra super now? Did that make you stronger, smarter or anything in any way?

32:34 Jackie (Guest): Absolutely! It's made me stronger. It's maybe more appreciative. It's made me more grateful to make me really change my perspective on life. It makes me really realize how much I want to help people as much as I can, but it's absolutely shaped me. It also is vice versa that some of the who I am as an individual has also shaped my POTS and shaped me, and then how I've handled POTS. So absolutely this this has completely shaped me. It's a big part of me and my life.

33:01 Jill (Host): Beautiful. Just so positive. Thank you. Thank you, Jackie for sharing your story and your insights and what a fantastic story to hear. Thanks for showing us what's possible. We really appreciate it. And, hey listeners - remember as always, this is never medical advice. Consult your health care team about what's right for you since we're all so different, but thank you for tuning in, remember that you're not alone, please join us again soon.

33:35 Announcer: You can find us wherever you get your podcasts or on our website, www.standinguptopots.org/podcast and I would add, if you have any ideas or topics you'd like to suggest, send them in. You can also engage with us on social media at the handle, @standinguptopots. Thanks for listening and we hope you join us. This show is a production of Standing Up to POTS. © 2021 Standing Up to POTS. All rights reserved.

[Transcriber’s note: For a copy of this transcript or the transcript for any other episode of the POTScast, please email volunteer@standinguptopots.org. If there is something I can do to make these transcripts easier for you to read, please let me know.]