Episode 77 – POTS Diaries with Abby

00:00:01 Announcer: Welcome to the Standing Up to POTS podcast, otherwise known as the POTScast. This podcast is dedicated to educating and empowering the community about postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, commonly referred to as POTS. This invisible illness impacts millions and we are committed to explaining the basics, raising awareness, exploring the research, and empowering patients to not only survive, but thrive. This is the Standing Up to POTS podcast.

00:00:29 Jill (Host): Hello fellow POTS patients and marvelous people who care about POTS patients. I'm Jill Brook, your horizontal host, and today we have an episode of The POTS Diaries where we get to know someone in the POTS community and hear their story. So today we are speaking with Abby, and we are so excited to get to know your story, Abby. Thank you for being here with us today.

00:00:53 Abby (Guest): Thank you, I'm excited to be here.

00:00:55 Jill (Host): So, give us the basics about Abby. Where are you? How old are you? What makes you tick?

00:01:02 Abby (Guest): I'm 20 years old. I'm a sophomore music education major in upstate New York. Obviously, I have POTS, which I try not to affect me, but obviously it does. I have two cats, but that's about it for me.

00:01:16 Jill (Host): OK. How would your friends or family describe your personality?

00:01:21 Abby (Guest): I'm quite shy at first, but outgoing once you get to know me.

00:01:26 Jill (Host): And what are some things that you like to do?

00:01:29 Abby (Guest): I love to crochet. I love to play music, listen to music.

00:01:33 Jill (Host): Yeah, so since you're pursuing a music education major, does that mean, like, you already are musical? Do you play an instrument or what do you do?

00:01:42 Abby (Guest): Yeah. So, my main instrument is clarinet. But I also play piano and then at school they make you learn all of the band instruments.

00:01:52 Jill (Host): Oh wow.

00:01:54 Abby (Guest): Yeah. I know all of those as well.

00:01:56 Jill (Host): Oh, all of them?

00:01:58 Abby (Guest): Yes. [Laughs]

00:01:59 Jill (Host): Have you ever been tempted to like record yourself and become like a one woman like play every part?

00:02:04 Abby (Guest): I have. I've done that, yeah.

00:02:07 Jill (Host): [Laughs] Wow! That sounds like good would be really good for keeping your brain young, just like having to learn - what - like a dozen different instruments.

00:02:15 Abby (Guest): Yeah, it's crazy.

00:02:17 Jill (Host): Excellent. Neat! OK. If we were going to force you to brag about yourself, tell us some things that you are good at.

00:02:27 Abby (Guest): I’d say music, I know I said music a bunch, but like I'm really good at playing instruments. I am really good at like sudoku puzzles, which sounds really weird because I hate math but like brain puzzles are like my thing.

00:02:42 Jill (Host): Neat. You know what, I have to talk to you about music for a second. OK, so I want to get your take on this. I had been having some allergic reactions that were kind of scary because of mast cell activation syndrome. And at the same time, my next-door neighbor, who's a music teacher, tried to get people in the neighborhood together to start playing instruments. And I could not believe how much calmer my immune system seemed to be when I was sitting there trying to learn to play the ukulele. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is like the most therapeutic thing I've ever done!” Does that make sense to you?

00:03:23 Abby (Guest): Yeah. Music therapy is actually a field that musicians can go into because it's like scientifically proven that music can calm stress. But yeah, I definitely find myself distressing when I'm just playing for fun.

00:03:37 Jill (Host): Oh, that's so interesting! I did not know that music therapy was like a proven thing. Any other tidbits about that? Like, is any instrument better than the other, or is anything good? Or does it matter?

00:03:50 Abby (Guest): It's really just based on the person and the player. Some people like specific instruments more than others. Some people like the higher instruments, lower instruments. It's just, you know, you pick what you love and you stick with it.

00:04:02 Jill (Host): OK. Wow, that's so neat. So if you had a time in your life where you were not yet affected by POTS, how long was that and what did that look like?

00:04:15 Abby (Guest): That would have been when I was in late middle school. I was a dancer. I played softball, was a very active kid. I loved to just go around and do stuff. I love to go on hikes, just just really like outgoing and energetic.

00:04:35 Jill (Host): So, what was your first sign that something was going on with POTS?

00:04:41 Abby (Guest): Uh, my first sign was I started having I start having blackouts when I was standing up, and that's like the...the main POTS symptom that you, like, Google and it was happening more than it normally should. And they were like, “Oh, it's not your iron,” so I ended up going to cardiologist. And that's when I got diagnosed with POTS.

00:05:03 Jill (Host): OK, so was it pretty quick and easy or what was the diagnosis process like?

00:05:09 Abby (Guest): It took years because I not only had symptoms with blacking out, but I had gastrointestinal issues, I had migraines, I had joint problems. And so, I ended up going to a bunch of separate specialists who knew I was in pain, but couldn't find a problem with me. So it wasn't until like my senior year of high school that it all ended up getting tied together and they were like, “All of this is related to the same problem.”

00:05:41 Jill (Host): OK, so you were like the elephant and they were like the blind men. And what was the breakthrough? Who figured it out and put it all together?

00:05:52 Abby (Guest): It was me actually.

00:05:53 Jill (Host): That's why I asked, right? [Laughs] Because I knew it was a good chance...

00:05:59 Abby (Guest): Yeah. I was doing, you know, I was doing my own personal research because when you're chronically ill you do that. And, I brought up to my doctor, I was like, “Hey, so I have all these problems and they are exactly word for word, symptoms of POTS.” And they were like, “Yeah that's...that's convenient.”

00:06:20 Jill (Host): Wow, so they were receptive and they...

00:06:24 Abby (Guest): Yeah, eventually they were.

00:06:26 Jill (Host): Wow, good job! And hurray for researching. OK, so once you knew what it was, were you able to get help and improve your symptoms very much?

00:06:38 Abby (Guest): At first when I was diagnosed, they kind of just told me to drink some water, eat some salt, and exercise. But then as I got into college, especially this year, my symptoms got so bad that I was like, bedridden. And that's when it became a problem that my doctors started treating.

00:07:00 Jill (Host): OK, and so where were you at your worst, symptom-wise, and where are you now?

00:07:09 Abby (Guest): At my worst, probably lying in my bed staring at my ceiling. I had complete loss of cognitive function. I get migraines, like stomach issues, dizziness, you know? Yeah, all of the fun symptoms.

00:07:26 Jill (Host): OK, and how much better are you now that you've had some treatment and some time? And I'm guessing you've kept researching on your own too?

00:07:34 Abby (Guest): Yeah, I just actually recently started treatment a couple months ago. I am doing a lot better. I've been put on a whole bunch of vitamins and salt tablets and also a beta blocker. And it has really helped a lot, but I'm definitely still in a place where I could be much healthier than I am.

00:08:02 Jill (Host): Mm hmm. So how is college for you right now with all this going on?

00:08:07 Abby (Guest): It's very difficult, yeah. I, just this semester, have almost had to take a medical withdrawal multiple times, just because of being so sick. And because POTS is an invisible illness, you know, I wasn't able to get the special needs disability through school. So I've just basically been relying on my professors being generous enough to give me extensions and allow me to miss an extra amount of classes.

00:08:36 Jill (Host): So, does that mean that you have to like go up to each professor and kind of have a discussion with them about what's going on?

00:08:44 Abby (Guest): Mm hmm, yeah.

00:08:46 Jill (Host): Oh boy, that sounds hard because you have to, like, do it every time you have a new professor, right?

00:08:53 Abby (Guest): Yeah, I basically send like a whole paragraph and I'm like, “So I have this thing...um, really complicated. If you want me to explain it, I can, but if you just trust my word... [Laughs]

00:09:03 Jill (Host): Though that's really interesting. Do you mind talking a little more about that, because there's probably a lot of people listening who either are in the same situation or who will be in the same situation, so if you've learned any things that work better or worse or anything for kind of managing that, we'd love to hear it.

00:09:20 Abby (Guest): Yeah, I...I learned just to be completely honest, like brutally honest with your professors. I have literally emailed my professors in the middle of cognitive function breaks and my emails sound like a five year old being typed out. But they understand because they're like reading my e-mail and they're like... so just being vulnerable with your professors and don't sugarcoat it because if you sugar coat it, they're going to think you're just trying to get out of it. That's what I've learned personally, and not every professor is going to be nice. I've had a professor who last semester forced me to withdraw from his class and, you know, it happens. But thankfully, at least where I am, a lot of my professors have been very understanding.

00:10:11 Jill (Host): So, do you do it like right at the beginning, like on the first day of class to get out ahead of it or do you wait until you need it?

00:10:17 Abby (Guest): I usually wait a little bit because usually my POTS is triggered by stress. So usually at the beginning of the semesters I'm doing very well and it isn't towards... towards the mid of the semester that I'll have problems that involve me getting behind in classes.

00:10:34 Jill (Host): OK. And so then e-mail is your way that you usually do it?

00:10:38 Abby (Guest): Yeah I... I'll e-mail them at first and I always give them the option to talk in person. I always give them the option to have a conversation about it and get more information.

00:10:50 Jill (Host): Do you mention POTS by name?

00:10:52 Abby (Guest): I do. Yeah, I do.

00:10:56 Jill (Host): Have they generally heard of that before?

00:10:59 Abby (Guest): No.

00:11:00 Jill (Host): OK, because since 1% of teenagers supposedly have this, I have to think sooner or later they're going to learn about it, and so you might be the pioneer making them learn about it so that next time somebody has an easier time of it. So, I'm sorry that nobody did that for you.

00:11:16 Abby (Guest): It's OK, I'm... I don't mind. [Laughs]

00:11:24 Jill (Host): So OK, so how else is college? How's the social life? Are you getting to enjoy that at all?

00:11:30 Abby (Guest): I... I try, you know. It's difficult because a lot of days I can only go to my classes and that's all I can do, activity wise, which basically makes my social life nonexistent. But I try to do things like I go to parties, you know, like with my... with my friends, um, and I'm not like a partier but I do it for the social interaction because on weekends I don't go to classes all day and I'm able to hang out with my friends and be in a situation where I can, you know, if I’m tired I can just go home.

00:12:10 Jill (Host): Do your friends know all about your issues?

00:12:14 Abby (Guest): Yeah. I actually walk using a cane, so to those people who don't know I specifically have POTS, they know I have something, so...

00:12:26 Jill (Host): OK, so that works out pretty well?

00:12:28 Abby (Guest): Yeah.

00:12:30 Jill (Guest): Oh, that's good. So do you have any little habits or hacks or tricks that help you get through your day better?

00:12:39 Abby (Guest): Yeah, I do. I drink a lot of water and take a lot of salt, and I feel like everyone says that, but like the days I don't drink a lot of water, I feel miserable. I take a ton of vitamins. Just also knowing your limits. I know that there's a point where if I go too far, I will literally force myself into a POTS episode and I will feel like crap the next day. So I know that I have a limit, and I might be like, Oh, I have all this homework, but I know if I do it, I won't be able to go to my classes tomorrow morning. So just finding that middle spot of, you know, what can I do that makes me productive but doesn't hurt me?

00:13:25 Jill (Host): Right. You know, as I think about college... so I was kind of lucky that my POTS didn't get too bad until I was done with college. But now thinking back, I think one struggle I would have is just having to pee all the time. Like, you know, you have like 3 or 4 hour labs and things and walking back and forth across campus all the time. Is that an issue for you or do you have it like all mapped out, 'cause when you're drinking so much... [Laughs]

00:13:53 Abby (Guest): Thankfully, my classes are only about 50 minutes long because for my major I have to take a whole bunch of classes, so they make them shorter and less credits. So my longest classes are only 80 minutes, which makes it very nice for me. So, I try to go between every class though. [Laughs]

00:14:14 Jill (Host): OK, so tell me about playing clarinet with POTS. Is that tough, because it sounds like it could be?

00:14:21 Abby (Guest): Yeah, I've definitely noticed sometimes when I'm not feeling great, I definitely will like be playing and everything will go out, you know. It's... thankfully, I can sit when I play. So it does allow me to, you know, to have that bit of blood flow.

00:14:41 Jill (Host): When they were having you learn every band instrument, did you have to learn some that required like some really hardcore blowing? Like, did you have to play the trombone or the tuba? And was that weird? Was that hard or was it fine?

00:14:55 Abby (Guest): Yeah, I'm actually right now in oboe tech, so I'm going to have to play the oboe and that instrument - every single time I've gone into that class, I walked out of that class like super dizzy with a huge headache and, you know, it just, I mean, it depends like what instrument it is, and especially with the new instrument you're not used to, you know, how much air you have to use, so you tend to [inaudible] more and strain a little bit.

00:15:22 Jill (Host): OK. Do you have any instruments that you would recommend for somebody who's really really super POTSie, like, there have been times when I have wanted to learn to play an instrument... like at one point - this was before I really knew I had POTS - but I was taking piano lessons and at the time I did not know why it was so hard to just sit up straight for an hour during the lesson. And so now I realized that if I were to take up a musical instrument, I would love for it to be something where, if I had to, I could just like lay down and play that way. Is there anything like that that you know of?

00:15:57 Abby (Guest): I guess like the biggest one is guitar. Guitar you can pretty much be anywhere and play a guitar. Piano - if you're OK with sitting - piano is also a very great option. String instruments are like the cello, the violin, viola, you know, those instruments that don't have you blow, you know, blow and have you sit while you play, I would say all good options.

00:16:24 Jill (Host): Sorry, I feel like I'm taking advantage of you here for like a free music lesson. So now that you have been living with POTS for a few years and dealing with it, is there anything you know about it now that you wish you had known sooner?

00:16:37 Abby (Guest): I wish I knew that all over the problems I had in high school were due to my POTS. I was always sick in high school and I always had little things wrong with me and they were all the same exact thing and I wish I knew that, but...

00:16:53 Jill (Host): Do you feel like not knowing it made you blame yourself or wonder what was wrong with you or things like that?

00:16:59 Abby (Guest): It made me feel like a hypochondriac. I mean, it's.. it's statistically proven that females, you know, get looked over more in the medical field than males. And I definitely had that experience in high school when I was younger of going to specialists and especially when they looked at my record and realized I'd been to so many specialists, they kind of know we're like, “Oh this girl. She's just being dramatic.” And so, I wish I knew that I wasn't being dramatic because I now know that none of those things were normal and [Laughs] I was not being dramatic.

00:17:33 Jill (Host): That sounds really tough. What did your family think? Did they think you were just being dramatic?

00:17:38 Abby (Guest): It really depends, because my mom was always really nice with getting me my doctors' appointments. And, you know, when I told her she always come with to them doctors’ appointments, but I don't think she necessarily like fully thought that I was, like, ill. I think she was kind of just like, Oh, let’s just bring her here to make sure that she’s OK. But I remember specifically there was one time I was having bad POTS episode and I was trying to tell my parents about it. And they were like, “Oh, well just stop with the whole the whole blacking out thing. Stop making excuses for yourself.” And I kind of was like..... but, I know that now that it's not me making excuses for myself.

00:18:24 Jill (Host): Does that make you feel more self confident now, like to trust yourself more?

00:18:27 Abby (Guest): Yeah, and I know there's a community of people who have the same exact problems as I do. And so, I know that if I ever need to go to someone, you know, there's a whole community behind me that understands me.

00:18:41 Jill (Host): So who does help you the most with managing your POTS at this point?

00:18:47 Abby (Guest): Probably my friends at school, honestly, 'cause they're the ones that see me the at my worst. And I think they all understand that there's something wrong with me and I can't help it.

00:19:04 Jill (Host): So that's good, you found a nice crowd. What is the best type of support people could give you at this point?

00:19:12 Abby (Guest): Just understanding, honestly. For someone to be like, “I understand you and I know what you’re experiencing is real,” that's like the biggest comfort I can find because people always say, you know, “I don't know how I can make this better for you.” And the answer is you can't. You know, you can't. There's literally nothing I can do, there's nothing that people around me can do to make me feel better. But having them tell me that they understand my struggles and that I'm valid - that is the biggest comfort for me, personally.

00:19:44 Jill (Host): Yeah, that's huge. So what gives you the strength to cope or deal with all this stuff?

00:19:52 Abby (Guest): Well, I'm very stubborn. [Laughs] And so, when I was getting really really sick this semester and, you know, everyone was mentioning medically withdrawing from the semester, I was like, well, I already made it through half this semester. I was like, I can do the other half, and just being really stubborn with myself and being like, oh I, I can do this, but you know, I would say I think I'm the one that makes my... keep myself going the most.

00:20:18 Jill (Host): Yeah, good for you. Do you feel like having POTS has taught you any life lessons?

00:20:27 Abby (Guest): I think it's definitely, you know, made me look at everything differently. Being mentally ill and being physically ill are two completely different things, and being mentally ill you don't understand, you don't really... can't really appreciate things, but when you're physically ill you learn to appreciate things, which is really weird. And I'll be really sick and I'll be like, Oh well, you know, it's a nice day outside.

00:20:54 Jill (Host): Ahh, so, so the little things become more precious?

00:20:58 Abby (Guest): Yeah, they do. I have a joke that people should be friends with me because I have a disability. So when I go to theme parks, I get front row line. And [inaudible] like “That's terrible!” I'm like, “No, but it's true.” [Laughs] It's just you know, it's about finding positives in, you know, crappy situations.

00:21:23 Jill (Host): Yeah, yeah. Have you found any other positives or do you have any tricks for finding positives? Do you just will yourself or you're like I'm just gonna I'm just going to work at it till I find something positive about this?

00:21:35 Abby (Guest): Surround yourself with people that believe you. Also emotional support animals are awesome. I have two cats. They've definitely helped me through so much.

00:21:47 Jill (Host): So nowadays with regards to your POTS, what is a POTS victory day to you? What's a good day?

00:21:54 Abby (Guest): I'm able to function that, you know, as of today, if I'm able to get to my classes and get home and have enough energy to do something, I call that a successful day.

00:22:03 Jill (Host): Mm hmm. And what's a tough day nowadays?

00:22:06 Abby (Guest): Not being able to make it to any classes, skipping classes, you know, not getting homework done. Yeah, so...

00:22:15 Jill (Host): So now that you have kind of... it's almost like you've been through some tough times. You've almost had to withdraw a bunch of times. You've made it through. Do you have any advice or words that you would give to your previous self that was feeling your worst? Like, when you were laying there thinking you're gonna have to leave school or when you're at your lowest, is there anything you would say to that person now, knowing what you know?

00:22:45 Abby (Guest): Just stick with it, you know. Even if it doesn't get much better, it'll eventually get better. There'll eventually one day be a doctor that believes you, and there will eventually one day be a treatment that works, and it might be 10 years away. It might be, you know, two months away. Don't think it's gonna last forever 'cause it's not.

00:23:02 Jill (Host): That's great advice. So are you up for a speed round where we ask you to just say the first thing that comes to your mind?

00:23:13 Abby (Guest): Sure.

00:23:14 Jill (Host): OK, perfect. What is your favorite way to get salt?

00:23:18 Abby (Guest): French fries.

00:23:19 Jill (Host): What is the drink that you find the most hydrating?

00:23:32 Abby (Guest): Water.

00:23:25 Jill (Host): What is your favorite time of the day and why?

00:23:28 Abby (Guest): I love first thing in the morning 'cause the sun is just coming up and I feel pretty good.

00:23:35 Jill (Host): Where is your favorite place to spend time?

00:23:38 Abby (Guest): At my school's library.

00:23:40 Jill (Host): And why?

00:23:42 Abby (Guest): It's just quiet there and I'm able to get studying done without being distracted.

00:23:47 Jill (Host): How many doctors do you think you have seen for POTS?

00:23:51 Abby (Guest): Close to 7 or 8.

00:23:54 Jill (Host): How many other POTS patients have you ever met face to face in the flesh?

00:23:59 Abby (Guest): I think maybe 1.

00:24:01 Jill (Host): What is one word that describes what it's like living with chronic illness?

00:24:08 Abby (Guest): Difficult.

00:24:11 Jill (Host): What is some good advice that anyone ever gave you about anything?

00:24:16 Abby (Guest): Stick in it, you know, stay there, I guess keep going. You know, those kind of things.

00:24:23 Jill (Host): What is something small or inexpensive that brings you comfort or joy?

00:24:29 Abby (Guest): Crochet hooks and yarn.

00:24:32 Jill (Host): Who is somebody that you admire?

00:24:35 Abby (Guest): My grandmother.

00:24:37 Jill (Host): And why?

00:24:39 Abby (Guest): She’s just a very strong woman, and she's a historic strong farmer woman.

00:24:45 Jill (Host): What is something that you are proud of?

00:24:48 Abby (Guest): I'm proud of myself this year for being where I am.

00:24:53 Jill (Host): What is an activity that you can enjoy even when you're feeling really POTSie?

00:24:59 Abby (Guest): Watching Netflix.

00:25:01 Jill (Host): What helps you fall asleep, if anything?

00:25:04 Abby (Guest): Usually listening to, like, white noise.

00:25:08 Jill (Host): What gives you energy, if anything?

00:25:11 Abby (Guest): Oh man. Probably just like doing stuff.

00:25:16 Jill (Host): What is a gift that you would have sent to every POTS patient on Earth if you had infinite funds?

00:25:23 Abby (Guest): Oh gosh, probably foldable chairs, like the compact chairs. [Laughs]

00:25:29 Jill (Host): Smart nobody said that yet. OK, what is something you are grateful for?

00:25:34 Abby (Guest): My family.

00:25:36 Jill (Host): OK, if you don't mind finish this sentence. I love it when...

00:25:41 Abby (Guest): I love it when I feel good.

00:25:43 Jill (Host): I hate it when.

00:25:46 Abby (Guest): I hate it when I'm having a bad day.

00:25:48 Jill (Host): People might suspect you're a POTSie when...

00:25:52 Abby (Guest): I'm walking with my cane.

00:25:54 Jill (Host): And have you ever had to sit or lie down in a weird place because of POTS? And if so, where was it?

00:26:01 Abby (Guest): Oh yeah, I've sat down in stores. In the middle of the street. Like, if you name it, I've probably sat down there.

00:26:11 Jill (Host): [Laughs] And so you've had to probably sit on some yucky dirty floors, I take it?

00:26:17 Abby (Guest): Yeah, you know, or usually I'll like always keep a jacket on me that I can just kind of put on the ground.

00:26:24 Jill (Host): So, I just have a few more questions. What do you wish more people knew about POTS?

00:26:32 Abby (Guest): I wish people knew how severe it was. When you Google POTS, the most mild thing comes up. I think it literally says, like, you blackout when you stand up, which yes, that is a symptom, but that is one of 1000. And I feel like a lot of the people who I know that have chronic POTS, that's not even close to their biggest problem.

00:26:54 Jill (Host): Right, right. I always say that the thing I hate about POTS – well, one thing I hate about POTS - is that it's named for like its least bothersome symptoms. Like, really, you're going to make that the headline and make us look like a bunch of wimps? There's so much more to it.

00:27:12 Abby (Guest): Yeah.

00:27:13 Jill (Host): I guess it's the most measurable symptom. Yes, OK, so is there anything you would like to say to your fellow POTS patients who may be listening?

00:27:25 Abby (Guest): Just know that there's people out there that are experiencing very similar things. It's difficult, if you're having a hard time finding support groups, there's people out there that will listen to you and we'll give you validation. So go find that, go find some validation.

00:27:43 Jill (Host): Yeah! As a musical person, do you have any favorite types of music or favorite songs or things that you go to that help you?

00:27:54 Abby (Guest): I love Broadway musicals.

00:27:56 Jill (Host): What's your favorite one?

00:27:59 Abby (Guest): Oh goodness. My favorite musical is probably Les Mis.

00:28:01 Jill (Host): Yes. You know what’s funny about Broadway musicals, I was so grateful when Hamilton came along because it takes so long to learn the words. So, I'm a Broadway musical lover too, and so sometimes having the distraction is really useful to me. And I feel like learning every last word to every last song of that kept me busy for like a year, so... [Laughs]

00:28:26 Abby (Guest): Definitely.

00:28:26 Jill (Host): When I finally learned all the last the last words to “Guns and Ships,” I was like, “Darn it! I'm out of things to know how to work on. What am I going to keep myself distracted with when I'm in pain? [Laughs] That's funny. OK, last question, why did you agree to let us share your story today?

00:28:46 Abby (Guest): Because not a lot of people know what POTS is, and I feel like as someone who is a very healthy-looking teenage girl, I feel like my story can relate to other people and even if people don't know what POTS is, maybe they're experiencing similar things that they realize is POTS after listening to this.

00:29:06 Jill (Host): Yeah! Well Abby. thank you so much for sharing your story and your insights. We really appreciate it. And I know that everybody listening is just hoping that things only get better and easier for you. How many semesters or quarters do you have left at school?

00:29:25 Abby (Guest): I've 4 left, so I'm halfway there.

00:29:28 Jill (Host): Halfway, OK. Well right on we hope it only gets better.

00:29:33 Abby (Guest): Thank you.

00:29:36 Jill (Host): Hey listeners, thank you for listening. Remember, you're not alone and please join us again soon.

00:29:42 Announcer: As a reminder, anything you hear on this podcast is not medical advice. Consult your healthcare team about what's right for you. This show is a production of Standing up to POTS which is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. You can send us feedback or make a tax-deductible donation at www.standinguptopots.org. You can also engage with us on social media at the handle @standinguptopots. If you like what you heard today, please consider subscribing to our podcast and sharing it with your friends and family. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts or at www.thepotscast.com. Thanks for listening.

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