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Jill Brook: Hello, fellow POTS patients and magnificent people who care about POTS patients. I'm Jill Brook, your horizontal host, and today we are speaking with Austin Walker, founder of Atlas AI. Did I say that right, Austin?

Austin Walker: Yeah, you got it.

Jill Brook: Okay, well we are very excited to speak with you because you have an interesting story.

Your social media says that you are a founder, an engineer, and a designer. Your LinkedIn says, building the AI layer for chronic illness. And a friend emailed me about you saying that you sold your last company in 2020, then you got COVID and never recovered, you spent nine months bedridden, saw 20 plus doctors who all dismissed it as stress.

You eventually got better by joining online patient communities, collecting what was working from other people and running self experiments. And then your friend said that that [00:01:00] experience turned you into a patient trying to solve this for complex chronic illness and that you've been working on turning what you learned into a product.

She said he's very passionate about sharing what he learned from the patient side, what the system gets wrong, what actually moved the needle for him, and the patterns he saw across other patients who recovered. So that's a lot, that's a lot going on.

Austin Walker: That's a lot.

Jill Brook: Maybe we start just chronologically, you wanna back up to like before 2020, what was your life like?

What were you up to?

Austin Walker: Sure. That sounds good. I failed high school, so I did not really have any other career options besides starting a company, which is something that I've always wanted to do. I've always been very, entrepreneurial since I was a kid. And I, I grew up in a very small mountain town in British Columbia, Canada.

And so I, by, by the time I was in grade 12, I was like making money on the internet and just like had no interest in showing up for school. And so that naturally morphed into growing my first kind of company. And we grew very quickly during the pandemic, thanks to like this big [00:02:00] digital shift to everyone going online.

We were in the video games industry and so this resulted in a lot of traffic and the company grew very quickly. I was very stressed working basically seven days a week from every waking hour, and I wasn't taking very good care of my body. I was eating a lot of junk and kind of, you know, really didn't take care of my gut health, and my, my, you know, stress levels were very high. And so we got an offer to sell the company and I was like, beyond burned out. So I was like, yes, this is the way for me to, to take a break while also having a successful outcome for everyone else involved. And then just a few weeks after we, we sold the company, I got, I got COVID and kind of things started to, to go downhill from there.

Jill Brook: Oh wow. That must have been crushing, feeling like you're finally getting to live your life.

Okay, so did it happen suddenly? I mean, so was the COVID bad and what happened?

Austin Walker: COVID was very bad. I, I often say that like, I couldn't even watch Netflix. Like I was so beyond like, like sick, that I just had to lay there and stare at the wall, like I [00:03:00] couldn't even comprehend many things. I was very, very sick for about three weeks. And then I came back and I, you know, started exercising and I was like trying to get back to, I was very active before this and, you know, so I go back to the gym and, you know, slightly short of breath, but like, you know, I'm just like, okay, I gotta push through it.

And, you know, then it becomes a little bit more fatiguing and then I start realizing that I'm not recovering as well after, and it becomes like, okay, the next day I'm like really tired. And it just kind of progressively gets worse, until I kind of got to the point where I actually blacked out on my mountain bike.

I totally passed out while I was riding my bike and, and and got those kind of a wake up call. I was like, okay, something is very wrong. And I, that's when I started my, my investigation of going to many doctors and getting generally dismissed on, on stress. Because I had gone through this, this significant company experience of, you know, selling a company, which the process of selling a company is almost more stressful than running the company.

And that, that was kind of the excuse that everyone pointed to is, you know, your labs are fine. You went through a, a very critical life event. You know, [00:04:00] this will go away if you just like rest and, and take SSRIs. That was the advice that I got.

Jill Brook: Wow. Wow. But you knew that that wasn't right.

Austin Walker: I mean, actually I believed it at first, which is unfortunate 'cause I, I trusted my doctor and I thought that, you know, I was like, okay, fine. Like maybe I am just like in sleep debt was what they called it and I just need to rest more. And so I, I started to stay home more often and really like rest and, and this, this kind of actually progressively got me worse because I deconditioned. And I, I stopped moving entirely, which then turned into basically being bedbound for, for almost a year. Because I just, the, the loop kind of continued. I think once I stopped trying to do things and I, I accepted that I had to rest, it got worse.

And, and that's when I was basically flat on, on, on the couch or in bed for, for almost a full year.

Jill Brook: So where was the moment where you said, I'm giving up on this normal way of approaching this, and I'm just gonna do something completely different?

Austin Walker: I remember that moment so clearly. I remember exactly where I was sitting and I remember [00:05:00] exactly what I was doing and I, I think at that point, I think I spent 12 hours that day just researching every, like I, I kind of had that breaking point where I was like, I don't trust my doctor. I don't trust the system.

And I, I don't accept this outcome for myself and I'm going to solve this problem. And that's when I basically made it my, my mission to figure out what was going on. And this was still pre like ChatGPT and everything. So like, researching these things was still very hard. And actually coming across the, the Unrest documentary was really, really a turning point for me, 'cause I was like, this is exactly what I'm experiencing. And then that led me to find who Jen's care team was, who's the patient in the documentary, and one of her, her doctor was Dr. David Kaufman, who I then reached out to and basically begged him over email to take me as a patient and told him my story and, and he accepted me as a patient.

And that's, that's when I finally got to talk to someone who actually knew what was going on. And that was like that, that whole process was probably two months, which was actually very short and in retrospect, knowing how many, how long some patients have to go [00:06:00] through. But I, I made it my life's mission and I, I luckily didn't have to work at the time.

And so I had all the resources and time just to pour into solving this problem. And, and I I found Dr. Kaufman, I, I, I went to the US to, to see him in person and, and get my official diagnosis. And, and that was, that was the beginning.

Jill Brook: Wow. Wow. And you know, it's a little bit of a shame that you have to beg and work so hard, but I, I think I know for a fact that Dr. Kaufman could not possibly take all the patients that want to work with. And so it, it, it does have to become a little bit of this competition.

Austin Walker: Yeah, unfortunately, yeah. And, and, and the whole system is, is really unfortunately set up where, you know, they can't take insurance. And so it's as a, there's also an accessibility bar to even being able to see, you know, the hourly rate for, for him is very, very high. And, and, you know, having to go in person is also not possible for everybody either.

I was lucky that I could have someone who could drive me there. And it was a very long road trip, but I, you know, I was able to get there and, and and, and, and see him.

Jill Brook: Okay, so what [00:07:00] happened then?

Austin Walker: Well, I started to learn a lot. I learned what POTS was. I learned what ME/CFS was, which for me both were true. I, I got diagnosed by by doing the, the poor man's tilt table tests or the, the NASA Lean test, which I'm sure your audience is familiar with. And that became a very helpful tool for me to measure my own improvements.

And I just started to learn a lot. And my, my brain's the type where I really wanna understand the why behind everything. I'm kind of an engineering person by default. And so, it was, it was important for me to understand like, why am I being prescribed these things and what, what are the expected outcomes that we're going to get?

And Dr. Kaufman was actually very, very very good at explaining all these things to me, which I think really improved my buy-in to the things that I was doing. I think a lot of doctors will just like, give you a plan and you don't really know why. And so I got some understanding of what was happening to me.

That was like the first phase. Most of the labs still were not that helpful, even though I had to spend a lot of money on, you know, private labs. Since I wasn't an American, I didn't have American health [00:08:00] insurance. But I think for that point, it, it was really opening the door for me to figure out who else can I find that has this condition?

And that's when I started to also find a lot of patient communities of people who, who were on mostly Reddit, some Discord servers, some Facebook groups. And I think that's where actually most of my learning came from. There was a point where I actually started to scale back on the amount of actual care I was getting from him because I was learning so much more, so much faster in, in the patient communities.

Jill Brook: Right. Now I think in talking to you a little bit in the past, I got the impression that maybe you had tried some unusual things.

Austin Walker: I've tried, I've tried a lot of wacky things.

Jill Brook: You wanna share any of this?

Austin Walker: Yeah. I've done so many things all the way from, you know, small therapeutics or medications and supplements all the way up to, I've done stellate ganglion blocks. I've done monoclonal antibodies. I've done plasmapheresis. I've done ozone therapy and I've done a lot of, a lot of things. I can't even remember all of them at this point. I [00:09:00] probably should have a list. But I really did throw the kitchen sink at it and, and, and learned effectively how to run effective experiments. I like really, really studied a lot of like how people run and, and collect data from clinical trials to understand like, how do you structure an effective experiment where you can learn the most possible from an N of one, just, you know, as a, as a single person.

And really built a very regimented system for myself to run these experiments since I felt like the, the, the, the learning process with a, with a clinician was still too long for me. Like I felt like I could make faster progress myself. And I don't recommend everybody do that, of course? 'cause I just, I have a much higher risk tolerance.

I think as a kind of founder type person, I'm like, I just want to solve this problem. And I think also given my life circumstances and where I was not working, I could tolerate a much higher risk. So as of now where I'm actually in, in founder mode, again, I can't tolerate that type of setback like I used to be able to.

And so I'm much more careful today than I, than I used to be.

Jill Brook: Mm-hmm. [00:10:00] Yeah. Was there any one treatment or thing you tried that really made a huge difference for you?

Austin Walker: Plasmapheresis was actually one of those things where I, I went to David's clinic in Seattle for a repeat occasion. And I did 10 days back to back, or every second day of, of plasmapheresis where they took five-ish liters of plasma out and reinfused with an equal volume of albumin and just kind of forced my body to like regenerate fresh plasma.

I have pictures of these like disgusting looking bags full of my plasma. It's very, very weird. I, I should write a, a post about this experience sometime and describe in, in detail. But I came home from that trip and I, I went on a hike the next day. And I was like, I was, I just felt like I felt the energy and I felt very motivated to, to go and, and, and go and go and kind of move my body. And I still can't, like, lift weights or do anything like super strenuous, but it did really provoke a, a very positive loop for me.

Jill Brook: Wow. That's great to know. Because I have to admit, [00:11:00] yeah, I've, I've thought about that and it scares me, but but it's good to hear, good to hear positive stories.

Austin Walker: I'm very like, obviously measured in trying to calculate a lot of like outcomes from these things. And so I had done, done the CellTrend antibody test pre and post plasmapheresis because I wanted to measure exactly what the change would be from this treatment. And I had very high antibodies pre and most of them had dropped below range after, as well as some EBV markers and other things as well. And so that was actually very helpful to indicate, although I will say my body has actually remade a lot of these antibodies in the months following, and so it was indicative that my, my body's actually still producing these auto antibodies and so removing them is not exactly a long-term fix. And so, I don't know if it's exactly the, the silver bullet that I, I thought it would be.

Jill Brook: Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess that's what makes this so tricky. And, it sounds like you were, you were impacted also by what other people were doing and what was helping them. How, how did you go about learning what other people were doing and how did that affect sort [00:12:00] of your design of your product?

Austin Walker: I think there's a few things. One was just like, learning what is the, what is the spectrum of what exists out there to try. Like, what is the full range of options on the menu that I could potentially consider for myself? And there's things that even actually a few weeks ago, like I, I found a, a, a certain like probiotic that like I, I'd never heard of before, that just happens to be low histamine that I was like, in all the years I've done research, I was surprised that I hadn't found this thing. But there's so many things out there that, that patients will be sharing on YouTube and Reddit. So for me it was like figuring out what are the, the range of things that I could try.

And then helping narrow down like what is the best thing for me. But also once I'm taking that thing it's actually very helpful to have someone else to compare and, and talk to about your experience. 'Cause I've started medications where I start to get much worse right away. And I'm like freaking out.

I'm like, oh, no, this is bad. And then another patient might say, actually, you know what, I, I had the same thing, but after two weeks, like I started to get better and the side effects went away. So you should, you [00:13:00] should stick through it. And sure enough, same, same experience. And so I find all of these are, again, much faster loop to learn than, than waiting for a clinician. If you can find someone who, who does truly match your profile. Of course, that is not an easy problem since patients are, are, are very diverse and not everyone's the same, but I, I did find a lot of ways to, to try to solve that.

Jill Brook: Yeah. Yeah. So, and then at what point did you decide to go into founder mode again and to create a product that would help chronic illness patients?

Austin Walker: I have to say it was not intentional. It was one of those things where I everyone has but me saw it coming except for myself, because I was just like, I think being sick for so long, like it definitely is, is traumatizing to a point where you kind of start to question your abilities of like, you know, can I really like run a company again?

I would say today I'm probably between 85 and, and 90% recovered. And so I'm, I'm still, I don't consider myself like fully back to everything since I still can't, like, run a marathon or, or go like lift weights to the gym. Otherwise I, I can work a full day and [00:14:00] nobody on the street would think that I have anything going on.

But it was kind of at the end of 2025 where I was starting to like, share kinda this approach that I was working on with a few friends because I, I had, as a, as an engineer, I had built a lot of my own personal tools using software and AI to, to analyze a lot of the things I was trying and structure safe experiments, since I think AI can be a very effective thought partner if you know how to use it.

But I think the average American still doesn't actually have the the skills or the knowledge on how to actually use these tools, and they're only as effective as the prompts that you give it. And so I was building these things for myself and then started to share them with a few friends. And people were like very, very overly positive about this.

And I was like, oh, great. Like this is helpful, great. Still not thinking about this being anything. And then over time this just became more and more obvious as I started to share with people that this, this could be very helpful. Naturally, this is like also the most interesting [00:15:00] problem that I've now been exposed to is like, I think it's very cool when something is so aligned with my own interests that I can spend like every day working on my, my on my own problem that could also solve other people's problems.

Jill Brook: Right, right. Absolutely. And you were kind enough to let me use it for the past, I dunno, six weeks or something. And I've been really enjoying it. I love it. I am a big fan of using AI in medical space and I have just loved the form factor. But do you wanna explain a little bit more about what it is and what you're trying to do with it.

Austin Walker: Yeah, of course. So it's a conversational agent, I guess, is the official term for, for it. But basically it's a, it's a health companion that will text you and soon call you depending on when this episode comes out. We'll have, we'll have that ability as well. And exists just on your phone, like a contact.

And so you don't have to open any apps, you don't have to use any software. And it checks in with you every day to understand how you're feeling. And so you can just give it very natural language responses. It's not filling [00:16:00] out surveys or forms. You can respond with voice notes. And over time, it builds an understanding of, of how you're doing, what's, what's changing, and what patterns are impacting your symptoms.

And so on one dimension, it is kind of like a, like a symptom tracker. But then it also goes and reaches out and researches the web of what other patients are trying, to help find other protocols and other patients that could be useful for you. But I found it very overwhelming to have to like, like scan all these different sources and see like what was trending on Reddit and, and what was on, you know, Twitter and Substack and I'm pulling in all of these data sources and, and, and trying to create like a, a single experience where my, my belief is like if we all had infinite money, we would probably all hire like a, like a PhD research student who would like, follow us around and like, analyze your labs and like research the web and like figure out what is like the next thing that you should be trying. And so that's the experience I'm trying to replicate is like, to give you that like trusted thought partner who is like, has your best interest [00:17:00] in mind, never trying to sell you anything. It's not, you know, selling you snake oil that it's profiting off of. It's like truly just trying to look out for you. So every morning that you wake up and it's like it has done something on your behalf, so you can kind of like take a deep breath and, and, you know, rest that maybe 30 or 40% of the, the stress of being a patient can be, can be automated.

Jill Brook: Yeah, I like that. And you know, I, I think, I think you nailed it. It is like having a PhD student to do things for you and to work on your behalf. But I'd say it actually also is I, I think a very good coach and it has a good personality and it seems to figure out when you wanna be more chatty and when you wanna keep it quick and, and it, it is, I think, even figured out with me to use a little bit of humor, which I appreciate. And, and it's amazing. Like, one thing that really strikes me about it is, like you said, it is a very light touch. I was expecting something where you spend a lot of time in the beginning filling out surveys, uploading records, [00:18:00] giving it a history. And I've done systems like that and there's some, I think, amazing ones out there.

But it is such a commitment and it takes a long time. And so I was kind of, I was, I was nicely surprised that it just jumps right in and it didn't ask for my whole backstory. You can tell that it's kind of collecting it as we go, and it just wanted to help me with my immediate problem that day. And I could give it tasks and I could say, hey, you know, can you go figure out which of these, you know, drugs has the shortest half life and, you know, and it would, you know, do all the research and come back.

I also appreciate that it just checks in with me once a day at 9:00 AM and so I don't have to remember to do anything. So I feel like I've had a lot of conversations with it about things where it turned out to be helpful, but I wouldn't have had the thought process and I wouldn't have kind of done the mental work if something hadn't reached out to me to make me do it.

Austin Walker: Right.

Jill Brook: And so I like that too. And then I do like the kind of coaching aspect. It's funny, you know, I, I'm a retired nutritionist and so one of my challenges as I do this is [00:19:00] because of my own gut problems, I have a hard time with too many vegetables. And so I'm always basically causing myself symptoms because I can't resist eating vegetables.

And it has figured out to use humor to basically tell me I'm an idiot, because I have the script in my head instead of just letting my body cast the meaningful vote. And I really appreciate that about it. It really, it really it, it, it helps on a number, a number of levels. And it always just also keeps things very, very positive and points out, you know, your, your patterns of, of, of progress and keeping track of things that I wouldn't. So anyway, that, that's been my experience. And it's, it's been great. Can I ask what your plans are with it?

Austin Walker: That's a great question and I, I haven't figured it out yet. But I would really love to, to replace the experience of what people currently have to turn to with, with Reddit and other communities and, and give it a much more like structured and, and kind of adaptive experience where you only have to talk to one thing [00:20:00] and it, it works on your behalf to go and search the web for what you need instead of, you know, having to be a part of all these different channels.

And so there's, there's a lot I'd love to build. Still, still only mostly one person, so it's, it's still, it's, it's still a, a, a long shot to, to, to improve, but exciting to work on it.

Jill Brook: Yeah. So now how do you balance your health with being a founder?

Austin Walker: It's a really good question and I'm really bad at it because I'm a very, like all or nothing type of person. And so, often what happens is I, I go all in and I work on something until I, I kinda hit a wall and then I, I gotta recalibrate. But I think there's something about this that has just been really, really exciting to just for once to wake up and like work on something that I think is really, really cool.

And also at a time where like the technology industry is just changing so much. You know, it's kind of like being in California during the Gold Rush. It just feels like it's the coolest time to, to use and build with AI. And there's, there's been a part of that loop that has actually helped my symptoms as well.

I think like there is a, there was a psychological element [00:21:00] for me of just like spending all my time at home and kind of just feeling, you know, unwell and now I try to get out of my house and, and go to a WeWork and, and just like work on this thing every day. And that gives me a lot of motivation. And so it has actually helped my symptoms a lot and I've been able to, to get some recovery.

But I also do sometimes pull 14 hour days and I, I come home and I can feel it, and I need to go to bed. And I I've definitely pushed myself to, to the limit a few times.

Jill Brook: So does doing this make you meet a lot of other people who have a lot in common with you? Do you feel like there's a growing group out there of people?

Austin Walker: I, I make it an effort to try to reach out to everybody who, who signs up for, for Atlas. And also I, I generally do spend a lot of time in these patient communities just trying to get feedback and like learn how I can improve the product. And so, you know, every week I talk to, you know, 10 or 20, you know, patients who are like me who go through this journey and it's funny 'cause I, I feel like it's like 50% like product researcher and [00:22:00] 50% like therapist and coach because I often end up, we get into like the details of like, what are you experiencing? And like, oh, like I know this person who, who maybe you could help. Or I, oh, I know this, this doctor who, who specializes in this.

And so I, I, it does feel very cool to, to have the ability to talk to so many patients in a, in a given week, and, and try to share as much as I can. But it is often hard because what worked for me is, is unlikely to work for most people because everyone is just so different. And so I do have to be very, like, even when I post on online, I tweet a lot about my health, but I'm, I'm very hesitant to say too many things about what I've tried, 'cause I'm afraid that someone else will just think that, oh, if it worked for him, it'll work for me and, and, and be disappointed.

Jill Brook: Hmm. Yeah. What do you wish you'd known sooner about chronic illness?

Austin Walker: I mean, first I wish I, I knew that I would've, I would've had to take this into my own hands a little bit sooner. Like, I think, I wish I would have realized that the traditional medical system is just not structured to solve these problems as effectively. And that would've, that would've [00:23:00] saved me a lot of time for sure.

And I think, just trying to set up my life in a way where I can, I can learn and, and spend as much time on like making this my, my number one priority. Like, I think it's it's, it's such a all consuming thing to focus on and I do attribute the speed of my recovery just due to how much time and energy I ended up allocating to it.

And I feel very lucky that I was able to, to, to be on my feet and, you know, very relatively mobile today. But I'm still learning actually. It's like I, I still find new things all the time. It's like a never ending journey.

Jill Brook: Can I ask how it affected you when 20 plus doctors said that you just had anxiety because of course a lot of the POTS community's, you know, supposedly 80% female, but, and like here you were, you were somebody who had just had all this huge success, you know, you're a young male, presumably pretty high confidence if you're a tech founder type and have a successful company and you've sold it. And then 20 doctors tell you that you're just stressed. I don't know, [00:24:00] like, did that shake you did? Did your confidence take a blow there for a while or were you able to just blow it off or?

Austin Walker: I definitely feel like there was a part of it that made me wonder if I was crazy, for sure. And you start to question yourself. Definitely, a lot of it was just being really pissed off because I knew that this was not the case and I was, you know, it, it's such a bizarre feeling when you go to the lab and you just, you just pray that your labs will be abnormal.

Like that is such a bizarre thing to wish for, that you just wish something is wrong with you so you can explain what's happening. But it was, it was a very bizarre time in my life for sure, especially because as I was just coming off of this, this, this exit, like all my small town, like local newspapers were like writing articles about me as I was meanwhile at home, like kind of struggling. And like all my friends were like, not really seeing me come around much.

And it, it definitely was a very weird time for my social life to, to kind of reconcile with the, the public narrative versus the private narrative. And I've, I've now since become more public about this [00:25:00] because I've kind of learned how actually common it is to deal with these things. But we all think to ourselves that this is so, you know, niche and that no, no one else deals with this stuff.

Jill Brook: Yeah, yeah. Are you up for doing just a silly speed round where we ask you to say the first answer that comes to your mind?

Austin Walker: Oh, exciting. Sure. I don't know how good I'll be at this, but let's try.

Jill Brook: What's your favorite way to get salt?

Austin Walker: LMNT.

Jill Brook: What's the drink that you find the most hydrating?

Austin Walker: Water.

Jill Brook: What is your favorite time of the day and why?

Austin Walker: Ooh. Morning. I'm, I'm generally the most productive and most creative in the morning.

Jill Brook: Where is your favorite place to spend time?

Austin Walker: Tahoe.

Jill Brook: How many other POTS patients have you ever met face-to-face in the flesh?

Austin Walker: Ooh. Not as many as I would've liked. Probably less than 20, maybe between 10 and 25. I can't remember the exact number. It's definitely less that I talk to online.

Jill Brook: What is one [00:26:00] word that describes what it's like living with chronic illness?

Austin Walker: I'm trying to avoid saying exhausting. It's the obvious answer. Just like all consuming.

Jill Brook: What is some good advice that you've heard that you try to follow?

Austin Walker: I think something that's been very helpful for me, as has been to stop chasing symptoms and start looking for mechanisms. This is kind of like a more engineering focused thing that I've really tried to also put into to the product is that, you know, symptoms just explain like what's happening to you, but a mechanism explains why it's happening to you.

Like brain fog could be caused by a million things, but brain fog due to mast cell activation is a very specific thing. And you can't treat brain fog, but you can't treat the mechanism. And so I've really spent all of my time, as I investigate my health, to put the mechanism at the forefront of what I am looking for and trying to rule out as opposed to ruling in. Because actually disqualifying something is just as useful as ruling something in.

Jill Brook: Who is someone that you admire?

Austin Walker: My partner.

Jill Brook: [00:27:00] Do you wanna say why?

Austin Walker: She is just the, the most like caring and like compassionate person who's like, been, been with me, you know, when, when we met I, I kind of kept my health kind of a secret and, and you know, we, we started dating and, and throughout the relationship she got to see really all the ups and downs and, and I, I couldn't imagine someone who could be so any, any more accepting and, and, and accommodating to, to what being of the partner of someone who is, who is going through this illness is, could be. And so, yeah, a lot of, a lot of admiration and respect for her.

Jill Brook: Yay. We love supportive partners. That's amazing. That's great. What is a food that always does right by you, even when you're feeling terrible?

Austin Walker: Like chicken and rice. My, my go-to staple.

Jill Brook: Yeah, mine too.

Austin Walker: Or, or or, or pho. I do, I do love a good Vietnamese bowl of soup.

Jill Brook: What is something that you're proud of besides maybe like something obvious like selling a company?

Austin Walker: [00:28:00] I honestly think that going through this journey has just like, kind of humbled me out a lot. And I really, really appreciate the type of person that like helped me become because I think it's easy to like let the whole, you know, Silicon Valley success kind of thing, get to your head. And, and I, I think I was probably riding that wave for a while in my life.

But I think going through this journey and like, you know, being like in my mid twenties, like being faced with like this question of like, am I ever gonna be able to like, you know, do physical activity again? Like really, really like, kind of humbled me out. And I, I would do it again. Like I would, I, I don't, don't love this to be in this position, but I, I would've, I would do it again, just, just for the, just for the, the, the new outlook it really gave me on life.

Jill Brook: Wow, that's amazing. Okay, and what is the very toughest thing about POTS or ME/CFS?

Austin Walker: I think it's, I mean, I would expect our audience here to have a lot of, a lot more education on the, the average person, but I think for me, the frustrating thing is, is not knowing why things [00:29:00] change. It's like, it's very hard when you, like, you're, you're on an upward trend and you're feeling better, and then seemingly out of nowhere, like your symptoms get triggered.

And, you know, there's some things like, I know if I eat like a, a greasy meal, like I should just, I shouldn't do that and I'm gonna feel bad. But there's some things where you, you just feel bad for no reason. And when it's not for any any cause that I can attribute it to, that's, that's really, really frustrating.

Jill Brook: So it's funny because Atlas has heard a few rants to that effect from me. When it asks me how I'm doing today, I'll say you know, worse and I don't know why, and I did this and this and this, and it doesn't make any sense.

Austin Walker: Yeah, it, it's good to have that person to, to vent to for sure. And I've definitely appreciated having Atlas in my corner as well, 'cause it, it reduces the amount that my, my partner has to listen to.

Jill Brook: Do you have any tricks that help you fall asleep?

Austin Walker: Yeah, I I was an avid skier before getting long COVID and POTS. I, I still love skiing, but I, I often just like think about in my case my favorite, like ski trail or ski run or some, some [00:30:00] activity where I'm like going through like a journey or some kind of a physical journey.

Jill Brook: Oh, super cool. I love that. Do you have any tricks for getting energy when you need it.

Austin Walker: I load up on salts. I, I drink a ton of LMNT and creatine has been very helpful for me. And I mean, very dependent on what is causing the, the, the issue for, for POTS actually, IV saline was incredibly helpful for me and still is whenever I really need it. It's pretty expensive unfortunately, and often hard to get insurance to cover it, but sometimes pumping two liters of saline into my veins and I can just feel like Superman for a couple days. It's like it when I really need it, it's great.

Jill Brook: Yeah. What is something that you're grateful for?

Austin Walker: Being alive.

Jill Brook: Have you ever had to sit down or lie down in a weird place because of POTS, and if so, the weirdest.

Austin Walker: Oh, so many places. I can think of every, like airports, like running late for a flight and you know, just having that or like in [00:31:00] a, in a TSA lineup and you're like, oh no, I have to lay down. So on the side of the road, like many places where you just have to, you just, you realize it's coming and the longer you wait the worse it gets. Unfortunately, many places. Also on the side, on the side of a slope on a ski hill too.

Jill Brook: Oh, Oh, me too.

Austin Walker: Maybe maybe, that's the weirdest one.

Jill Brook: So thank you for doing the, the speed round. I just have a couple more questions for you. What do you wish more people understood about chronic illness?

Austin Walker: Well, I think it's hard for the average person to understand and empathize with someone who is sick because it's often invisible. Like if I was, you know, in a wheelchair, like you get a lot more empathy than someone who may be having something that is not visible. And so I think everyone's a little bit different, but I think it is often the case for me that it's helpful just to, to, to share expectations with people on, on how I would like them to show up for me when I'm not at my best. Like I, I, I'm actually one that I don't need a lot of sympathy and [00:32:00] I, I don't need, like, I'm pretty self comfortable taking care of myself and so I think it's important to like set those expectations because people often don't know how to show up.

They kind of like panic a little bit and they're like, either they smother you too much or they don't do enough. And so it's often just good to be upfront about those things, how you would prefer someone to, to show up for you. But I also just wish it was easier to get answers and to get care. I think the kind of insurance kind of problem as well as, you know, lack of clinicians like, I wish there was just more people in the world who would dedicate their, their careers to, to entering this, this type of chronic, chronic complex illness. To be honest, if, if I were to go to medical school, this, this is actually like a, a fascinating area of medicine because you get to go be like Dr. House with every single patient because they need someone to go and like deeply investigate their their case. And I think that's way more exciting than running a primary care clinic with 3000 patients on your panel. So I, I really do wish that we would, we would have more, more people who would dedicate their, their careers to the space.

Jill Brook: [00:33:00] Yeah. Yeah. Okay, and our last question, we, we hear from listeners that oftentimes they listen to this when they're kind of feeling at their worst and they can't do a lot else. And so if you think back to maybe when you were at your rock bottom, what would your today version of yourself tell that person who is at rock bottom?

Austin Walker: That's a good question. I think I would, I would tell myself that recovery is possible, which can, you can learn from, you know, witnessing other people. This is why communities can be so helpful. And I would tell myself to, to be kind in allowing you to do whatever it takes to enjoy your life while you're in that state. Whether it's binging a TV show or, or, or playing a video game or, or just like, kind of, you know, anything that you can do to like, just enjoy yourself.

Like, I, I would, I was pretty hard on myself always trying to, to try to be productive or, or try to like do something. And I think giving myself permission just to be [00:34:00] sick and to kind of allow it to happen was also important, and just kind of accepting that there are days where it's okay just to write it off and say that this is not my day.

I think permission of anything, like you have to give it to yourself and no one else will often give it to you. And sometimes that's the thing that I probably needed the most.

Jill Brook: Yeah, that's a really good tip. So as far as your new startup and Atlas, is that anything where you're interested in sharing a website at this point, or do you want to share how people can follow you?

Austin Walker: Of course, yeah. I'm happy to share a link that people can click in, in show notes or whatever you guys do. And I'm also like very eagerly trying to like learn how to make this better. And so if anybody is interested in like contributing I'm setting up like a Discord server of my own of just to like have people who wanna contribute and share feedback and trying to make this a very community driven product since, you know, I'm only one person and I have a, I have my own [00:35:00] experience on, on how to approach this, this problem. But I would love to hear from more people. And so in either of those cases, if, if people wanna try the product, it doesn't cost anything. I may have to add some usage limits to the product in the future, but so far I'm trying to keep it free.

And we'll figure that out. And yeah, if anybody wants to join on Discord and like share ideas or feedback or tell me if something breaks or how I can make it better, like, I would love to hear all of it. And yeah, that I'm also also just excited to, to take this, this as far as I can go and just see, see where it goes.

Jill Brook: Well, thanks. Well, that's awesome. Okay, so we'll put all of your information in the show notes and so listeners, you can check it out there. And Austin, thank you so much for sharing your story and your insights with us, and thanks for working to turn the whole experience into something that helps others have an easier time of it. And I know that just everybody listening is just wishing you all the best going forward. Thank you for being here today.

Austin Walker: Thank you and thank you for hosting me and thank you everyone who, who listened today.

Jill Brook: [00:36:00] Okay, listeners, that's all for today. We'll be back again next week, but until then, thank you for listening. Remember, you're not alone and please join us again soon.